Talk:Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy)

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Requested move 16 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. As seen in the prior move discussion just above, some people object to the current title but agreement still can't be reached on a new name. EdJohnston (talk) 02:38, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy) → United Kingdom of Israel – Following the rejection of the WP:COMMONNAME for this topic, i.e. United Monarchy, at the previous discussion, the next best option is the alternative name sometimes used for the topic - one that also dispenses with the ghastly parenthetical disambiguation, and which, while only a distant runner up to United Monarchy in terms of actual scholarly usage, is also preferable, as a form of natural disambiguation, over the parenthetical disambiguation, per WP:NCDAB. Examples of the scholarly usage can be found here. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:02, 16 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:57, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Oppose The existing title has held tight for almost 20 years (minus the slight interregnum period where it was changed to just “United Monarchy”). There is no prevailing pressure to change this once again outside of a single-editor driven effort here.

That said, “United Kingdom of Israel” is definitely a less clunky title. Would need more editors to chime in here in terms of preference and general consensus on necessity on this proposed move.

Mistamystery (talk) 18:41, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

NB: the page actually began at the title of "United Monarchy" (following the sources) before being moved to the present title without discussion in 2009 accompanied by a very muddled summary. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:13, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not entirely accurate. Title edits between 2005 and 2009 were varied. (It held for a period as “The United Monarchy (United Kingdom of Israel and Judah or just Kingdom of Israel” Mistamystery (talk) Mistamystery (talk) 19:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm talking about the actual page title, not just what was randomly written in the first sentence regardless of what was present in the page title. Lead changes aren't page moves. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:56, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree Plenty of sources use the term, and it's much smoother than the current title. It might have been the same for a while now, but I don't think it would hurt anything to change it. Jacksonmcdonald3425 (talk) 00:59, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, as the kingdom’s title was not “United Kingdom of Israel”, but simply “Kingdom of Israel”. Any qualifiers need to be in parentheses as elsewhere on Wikipedia 2600:100F:B096:C0F9:848B:76FC:8601:CC75 (talk) 23:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Palestine in infobox

From recent edits, I see there's disagreement over the inclusion of Palestine in the "today" section of the infobox. This seems like a reasonable inclusion, since the point is to show what current jurisdictions have land that was once thought to be the Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy). Let me suggest discussing here rather than reverting etc. ProfGray (talk) 11:10, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anachronisms

@Joseph Imperial: I don't know why Yiddish and Israelis would belong in the 10th century BCE. "Israeli" means a citizen of the modern state of Israel (i.e. 1948 or later). Yiddish originated in the 9th century CE, and it is a Germanic language. tgeorgescu (talk) 08:54, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

... and there was no Judaism there. Maybe there was polytheistic Yahwism, but Judaism appeared centuries later. tgeorgescu (talk) 09:15, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why has the picture been changed? Without changing the caption or any discussion?

Looks like vandalism Nohorizonss (talk) 08:00, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This picture is just a kingdom juxtaposed over the twelve tribes . If we were to go by the primary biblical sources that it would extended from Syria to the brook of egypt. I would like the older artistic picture to be restored. Nohorizonss (talk) 08:02, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article Intro

The article description correctly notes the state as a hypothetical one, but the article intro speaks as if the state definitively existed. The intro needs to be tweaked to read "proposed/hypothetical state," or something similar MS1745 (talk) 08:47, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It states "Whether the United Monarchy existed—and, if so, to what extent—is a matter of ongoing academic debate." I think this is enough for showing it's contested. tgeorgescu (talk) 09:53, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why the definitive language in the introduction? MS1745 (talk) 10:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]